Hello All, With the Renegade sales on hold due to transmission issues, I'm back to thinking maybe I'm better off buying a Wrangler. I know most of you are over on the Wayalife forum and know the Wrangler's well. Wayalife Eddie, I read you comment about how much you liked the IFS on the Renegade, that was one thing I thought the Renegade would be nice for as well. However, as I asked about a few months ago, I want to get serious and price out the Wrangler with the required mods. While the Rubicon is nice, it can get really pricey in a hurry. I'm thinking I should just go with the Sport and add lockers if I ever get real serious about offroad later. The capability of the Renegade may have been plenty for me so I don't need to go crazy on the Wrangler mods. What I'm really asking is what mods can I do, or not do, to make the Wrangler the best daily driver possible? I have a one hour ride to work each way so that is the most time I will spend in the Wrangler, reserving it's offroad capabilities for occasional weekends. Looking at some of the Jeep vendors, I keep seeing Teraflex mentioned, I want to see if changing the stock springs and shocks would give me a more comfortable ride? I've stated reading on wayalife.com and found this thread: http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?607-RubiCAT-Gettin-EVO-d-UP!!&p=271993&viewfull=1#post271993 It mentions Rancho 9000 adjustable shocks and/or EVO Bolt-On Coilover Kits. Sorry for the dumb newbie questions but do these help or hurt in the attempt to get a great daily driver on-road ride? What about a 2" Lift? Does the Teraflex 8 arm kit help or should I stick with the Mopar one to avoid warranty issues? Or, in fact will I make the ride worst by adding a lift kit? What about 32" or 33" tires, will the larger sidewalls give a more comfortable ride? Thank you all for your help and guidance.
Well, first off as a daily driver the wrangler will fetch you roughly 10mpg less than a Renegade. I'm sure you've already thought of this but I wanted to point it out again. That is a lot of gas money in the end. Second is that I highly suggest the Rubicon. Why? Resale value most of all. You may get bitten by the Wrangler bug like rest of us and soon be wondering how you can afford a Jeep like Eddie's. You will be able to make quite a bit off of your Rubicon parts as you sell them to get better axles, tires etc. Plus, a stock 2 door Rubicon is very capable right out of the box. You may find that it suits your needs as is. Or, you may find that you don't care for off roading and want to trade it back in. Wranglers in general hold their value like no other. Example - I traded in my 09 that I owned for two years and got it for a few hundred less than what I paid for it. First here is that there are no mods that make the Wrangler better as a daily driver. Stock will get you the best daily driver performance. The capability of a Rubicon will get you all the places you want to go. You'll see Teraflex a lot because they are good at marketing. What they don't have is reliable parts. As for ride comfort, it is 100% subjective. Meaning what works awesome for you may ride like shit to me. Your best bet here is to meet up with some locals and ride in their Jeeps. Rancho 9000s are adjustable through their 10 different settings. Just changing your shocks will not hurt but you will only be able to fine tune the ride. Not change it all together. King coil overs are a completely different animal. I highly recommend you join up on wayalife to learn more about Coilovers. No, you do not need to replace all 8 control arms. And for warranty issues you will be at the mercy of the car dealership if you have modified your Jeep at all. I'm not sure about the larger side walls giving a better or worse ride. The load rating will as well as the tread pattern. All terrain tires are your best bet for off road and on road performance.
I think MR. Ty did a great job of covering the bases. What I would add to his comments is this - I personally find that the factory ride of a Wrangler to be substandard. For all the people you will ever hear talking about how their modified Wrangler rides as good as factory, all I can think of is how sorry I feel for them. For me, I prefer to have a BETTER than factory ride and you can get it - but it will cost a pretty penny to get you there. That being said, the Renegade has an outstanding ride right from the factory and one that is WAY better than a Wrangler could ever hope to have EVEN WITH full pressure in your tires and running along a basic dirt road. There just is no comparison. Of course, the Renegade will also give you WAY better MPG and for a daily driver with a long commute, I would still think the Renegade is a better bet. Where the Renegade comes up short is in its ability to take on more technical terrain. The lowest model Wrangler Sport with zero options and 28" tires will still out perform a Renegade off road every which way from Sunday. There just is no comparison. Where I might have had a hard time deciding to get a Renegade is if it were going to be my only Jeep. I enjoy exploring way too much and if I could only choose one or the other, I would get a Wrangler without giving it a second thought. Aside from the obvious reasons - when you price out a loaded Renegade Trailhawk, you are literally in the same ballpark as a 2-door Wrangler Rubicon or pretty well equipped 4-door Sport. For me personally, I probably would go with the 4-door Sport as it has so much more room to carry people and camping gear. Of course, being that I already have 2 very built Wranglers, getting something like a Renegade was a no brainer as I have options. To address a few of your other questions... As mentioned, TeraFlex does a great job of marketing and I have installed and tested out many of their kits in the past and I would NOT recommend them. The quality of their products is sub-standard and their coils are way too stiff for my taste. Of course, ride quality is 100% subjective and if you like a stiff ride, you might like their coils. The only coils I have found to be softer than factory would be the EVO Plush Rides and coils make up a majority of ride comfort. Shocks will only assist what your coils are already doing for you but, if you don't have a good set of coils, even the best shocks won't make your ride feel any better. As mentioned, coil overs are a totally different ball game and one that comes at a premium. If you can afford them, you can be sure to get a nice ride. Of course, any modifications you make to your Wrangler will reduce your MPG. You do not need new control arms with just 2" of lift. Your suspension geometry will not be off enough to warrant them. ANY modification you make to your Jeep can potentially void your warranty. It just depends on your dealership. Again, as mentioned, you will want to be more concerned with the load range of your tires as they will make a bigger difference in ride comfort than would a greater amount of sidewall.
MR.Ty and Wayoflife, Wow, thanks guys for the great information and advice. I am concerned about the loss of fuel mileage if I go with the Wrangler. But when I really think how often I have to drive to work, as I do vanpool most of the time, maybe I'm okay to accept the lower fuel mileage. I do wish the redesigned 2017/2018 Wrangler were already here, with it's hoped for fuel mileage improvement. While it looks like we will not get the IFS, it does sound like they are redesigning the suspension, if you believe allpar.com? I also just found this link: http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/every-2017-jeep-wrangler-rumor-explained-1686153671/1686999708 Another reason I'm growing leary of the Renegade, I'm sure you guys have seen the postings over on the "jeep renegade forum dot com", they are getting scary, it seems the Renegade is quickly getting the "Fix It Again Tony" syndrome. I'm not sure if it is a Jeep design problem or a Fiat assembly problem? Or, maybe it is just first year issues? I'll look more closely at the Rubicon's, the EVO Plush Rides and non-LT A/T tires, thank you.
I wish the redesigned JL Wrangler were already here too but it's gonna be more like 2018/2019 before we see it. I'm sure the MPG on them will be better but, I doubt it'll be close to what the Renegades are getting. A body on frame and solid front and rear axles add on a lot of weight and as it stands, Sergio is already stating that they will no longer be making an all aluminum body - only parts of it will be. If I could guess, the new JL Wrangler will still weigh in at over 4,000 lbs. I so wish the rumors were true but, the article is old and my sources (which are pretty reliable) have been telling me a different story. Ideally, what was hoped for was two different versions of the same JL Wrangler - one that came with a non-removable hard top and IFS and one that was geared toward off-road with removable top and doors and solid axles. Both would be built on the same frame and share most of the same components. The one thing that is most likely to be true is that the JK is going to have a longer than 10 year run much as the XJ Cherokee had but I seriously doubt it'll be sold side by side with the JL as a classic. Well, I'm hoping it's just a first year out issue as I'm all too familiar with that. It happens and I'm okay with that so long as FCA can work through the bugs and get them fixed. Time will tell on that one. Just so that we're on the same page, something like EVO Plush Ride coils are what you'd want if you're going to be running 35" or 37" tires. Is this what you're hoping to run? AT's will give you better MPG as they will have less rolling resistance but as far as ride comfort goes, you'll want to make sure whatever you get is more in the load range C. Anything higher will give you a rough ride unless you run them at below 30 psi.
Well, whether I go for a Sport S or Rubicon, maybe I should just stay with the stock height. I maybe could change to C range A/T tires on them. It looks like the stock size on the Sport S is P255 / 75R17 and The Rubicon is LT255 / 75R17. That looks like 32" on both, what would Jeep do regarding warranty if I bumped up to 33" or 35"?
Jeep won't do anything with your warranty, it'll be your dealership that would give you grief if anybody. One of the best things you can do to help prevent this is to make sure to have your oil changed by them at every interval. This will make you a customer and dealerships are a lot more lenient about warranty work if you are one. That being said, 33's won't hurt anything and you can pretty much run them at stock height. A leveling kit would help clearance issues but you will either need new aftermarket wheels with less back spacing to help elsewhere or, you will need to run 1.5" high quality wheel spacers. With 35's, you will want at least a 2.5" coil spacer lift. Regardless of what you do, you will need to get something like an AEV ProCal or Superchips Flashcal to calibrate your speedometer. If you have more Wrangler related questions, you might want to post them up on www.WAYALIFE.com as there are others who can assist you there as well
Great suggestion on moving over to www.WAYALIFE.com. Let me just wrap up this conversation here. Sounds like maybe I skip the 35's for now. If I go with 33", even though they are only 1" larger than the stock 32" that causes you to have to replace the wheels or add spacers, is that correct? You mention a leveling kit, so will the 33" cause clearance issues, even though it is only 1" larger?
Well, you're more than welcome to continue it here as well as it's all good by me, just thought I would put it out there just in case you want other opinions in addition to mine. Yes. It's not the height that you need to be concerned with, it's the width. A 12.50" wide tire like what most 33" tires come in will give you rubbing issues at a full turn and your rear sway bar links will sit dangerously close to the sidewalls of your rear tires. You need less back spacing to help prevent these issues. Not for around town driving but definitely off road when disconnected and at a full turn. A leveling kit will pretty much just raise up your front end an inch and it will help address these issues with 33's.
So I spent the week looking at Wrangler models, prices and mods. I spoke with two nearby dealers about mods and warranty. I read the latest on the Renegade reliability concerns and have arrived a defiant possible maybe answer. I went and test drove a body-on-frame model, with independent front suspension, hope this is not sacrilegious, but it was a Toyota 4Runner. It gives me the front independent suspension for on road comfort, higher ground clearance than the Renegade and better long term reliability. How do the 4Runners fare alongside your Jeep Renegades or Wranglers when you are on the trail?
LOL!! I used to own a 1988 4-Runner and loved it. For a long time, they were great rigs I would still love to own one but now, I personally would pass. The new 4-Runners are just too big for my taste and a far cry from what they were. I'm sure that they're reliable being that they're made by Toyota but their resale value isn't anywhere close to what a Wrangler is. The FJ-Cruiser is a totally different story but, I digress.
Agree on the FJ Cruiser, I love it and struggled with myself to buy one last year when I knew they were coming to an end, now the used prices are higher than new. The 4Runner does look much larger, not crazy about that, but when I went on the test drive I found it handled like it is smaller than it looks. I then compared the 4Runner to FJ Cruiser dimensions, I was surprised, they are all roughly the same except the 4Runner is 7" longer (191.3" vs the FJ 183.9"). The wheelbase of the FJ is only 4" shorter (105.9" vs 109.8") , so I guess that is why the 4Runner had a nice turn radius. In fact, more surprising, the Wrangler Unlimited wheelbase is 116.0" and the 4Runner wheelbase is 109.8". Clearly the sheetmetal shape of the two give vastly different impressions of size, since the the Wrangler has a narrower body, inside the fenders. Also, it seems the Wrangler Unlimited and 4Runner have similar turning radiuses and tracks.
Just looking at jeep.com and Toyota.com the starting price for the Wrangler is 5k less. If you do get bitten by the off road bug you may find that you cant go to far with the 4runner because of its front ifs and the shape of its wheel wells. I will say that they are very comfortable. Have you looked at either the Grand Cherokee or the regular Cherokee?
MR.Ty, the Grand Cherokee is a good suggestion, I had not seriously considered it due to it's size, but you are right is about the same as the 4Runner. I looked at the different packages and to get a locking rear differential and on/off road tires you have to add either a Hemi or diesel engine, this makes the available offroad package models, the Limited 4x4, in the $40-$45K range and the OVERLAND 4X4 in the $45-$50K range. I can get the equivalent capability in the 4Runner Trail at $37K list or $33K after dealing. And then there is this weeks headlines, "Feds Probe 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee for Inappropriate Automatic Braking" I've looked at the Cherokee and seriously considered it. However, I can't get pass the 9 speed transmission and drivetrain issues it seems they still have. Over on allpar.com they are even discussing how FCA seems to consider it problematic as well and may move the the Cherokee to the future Alfa Giorgio rear wheel drive platform.
To be clear, I was not comparing the 4runner with the Grand Cherokee, just offering it as a suggestion. My price comparison was between the Wrangler and the 4runner. It is depressing to see that the GC is also running into problems. The ecodiesel that I test drove was by far the nicest vehicle I've ever driven. I'm sure the 4runner is nice. If you have set you heart on it then go for it. I don't have any experience with them beyond riding in one. It is unfortunate that the problems with the 9 speed appear to be bleading over to the Renegade as well. I really want the automatic since I am tired of driving a manual in traffic mon-fri. Not to mention that I haven't seen a manual renegade for sale in my area. Time will tell and I have my fingers crossed that FCA will find a fix to the problem when I go to get a Renegade.
The whole point for me to get a Renegade is that I didn't want a vehicle as big as a 4-door wrangler, 4Runner or the like. I wanted a sub-compact SUV and all the benefits that come with it.
