willydigger 2017 DESERTHAWK Alpine White

Discussion in 'Renegade Show & Tell' started by willydigger, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. willydigger

    willydigger New Member

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    Coming from a 2005 Wrangler, going from stock 28 to 33 inch tires, toe was the immediate instigator for death wobble. Toe determines how straight a tire is from a top view perspective. Normally you have a very minor toe in meaning the front of the tires are slightly closer than the rear of the tires. When you accelerate they straighten. A severe toe in (very close together) or toe out (very far apart) will create steering shimmy and that can lead to death wobble in lifted vehicles. It also effects the offset of your steering wheel.

    Caster is non-adjustable and frankly has a marginal impact on alignment due to lift. Caster represents the vehicles ability to return to center. When you turn the steering wheel, Caster is what helps return the vehicle/steering wheel to center. Lifts have a minimal impact that will not be noticeable.

    Camber determines whether the tire sits flat on the pavement or if one side or the other leans. This is normally corrected with aftermarket bolts that have a cam/lobe that will push the top of the tire in or out to make it flat again. If you look at the bolt link above, you'll see the bolt has a cam in the center that will push the top of the tire away from the strut mount. This is a tire wear element of alignment.
     
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  2. Kevin Gaare

    Kevin Gaare Active Member

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    Thanks for the great explanation!

    I had an 08 JKUR with 33" tires too, the little baby renne tires are still sort of an eye sore to me..
     
  3. willydigger

    willydigger New Member

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    Before.
    [​IMG]

    After.
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    Very subtle, but noticeable getting into the truck and general outside stance.

    Now with Kumho 235/65r17
    [​IMG]
     
  4. willydigger

    willydigger New Member

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    Kumho is 1 inch larger than stock, but nearly identical ride quality. Still maintain daily driving comfort with a more capable tire. Pinch Seam mod was required. No rub. Also on 1.25 spacers.
    [​IMG]
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  5. willydigger

    willydigger New Member

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    Camber adjustment bolts arrived. Link on page one. I opted to get them only because this is a DD primarily and tire wear is a major factor with off camber. I also ordered the magnetic camber gauge.

    [​IMG]

    Instructions, gauge, bolt and some of the required tools.
    [​IMG]

    You have to remove the factory upper strut bolt and install the camber bolt in its place.
    [​IMG]

    Pre-adjustment. Matched pretty close with the alignment results. The bubble is on nearly -2 camber. Notice the NEG and POS markings on the gauge.
    [​IMG]


    Washer side of the camber bolt. I needed positive camber adjustment so the tab on the washer faces the wheel.
    [​IMG]

    Camber gauge after adjustment.
    [​IMG]

    Here is a pic of the original alignment results.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. willydigger

    willydigger New Member

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    Added some new decals. Never took to the Oscar Mike star decal. So they're gone.
    [​IMG]
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  7. willydigger

    willydigger New Member

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    Some post lift pics.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Jimmy Lee Smith

    Jimmy Lee Smith Active Member

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    Nice!
     
  9. Kevin Gaare

    Kevin Gaare Active Member

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    I love it man, absolutely. The changes are subtle, but go a long ways.

    I'm really thinking about doing the same lift and tire size as you. Do you have any long-time concerns about the lift/alignment after the camber bolt adjustments? Still concerned about toe? Is there anything that can be done about the toe? Is there any other issues with handling after the lift, I've heard some people heard creaking noises? What's your overall opinion/recommendation for doing these mods on a DD?

    I might wait until 36k to do the mods, just to be safe not to void out the warranty on anything suspension related. I might not do the lift at all, and just trim pinch seams to fit the bigger tires. Undecided... Any advice/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

    You have one nice looking renegade.
     
  10. willydigger

    willydigger New Member

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    I have zero long term concerns with alignment. The only reason I did anything extra with alignment is due to the amount of miles I drive per day. The alignment adjustments were easy and I'm satisfied with the mods. The toe was only a concern until I got the alignment (which was only a day after) only because I had bad toe with the Wrangler which initiated my death wobble. Now that the alignment is done and the toe is set, I'm over it. Remember, getting an alignment will fix the toe. The caster is not adjustable (nor a concern for me), and the camber is an easy fix.

    Creaking noise, IMO is over analyzing nonsense. Speaking from only my experience, I installed a 1 inch Aluminum body lift to my Wrangler 12+ years ago. No noise. Back then I didn't give a shit about torque settings. I just made it tight. No noise. All I did with the Renegade was add spacers. I'm more likely to believe the Poly spacers from the Daystar lift will be an issue over Aluminum spacers squeaking (and speaking frankly, I doubt the poly spacers will have any issue either).

    My biggest hurdle was to maintain the DD benefits vs. off-road functionality and overall look. The Lift Kit was a no brainer for me. No skid plate mod that Daystar requires (for the TH) which isn't necessary on the TeraFlex lift. It's a simple spacer install (the install wasn't simple, but the lift design is) and I rather have a less "drivetrain complicated" 1.5 over the 2.0 inch lift (the higher you go, the more trouble you have). Not saying 2.0 inch will give you trouble, but I didn't need it.

    My biggest concern was tire wear, noise, and handling. I knew the 225 would fit, but I had a hard time justifying $1000 in tires for a +.5inch diameter gain. The only other option was the 245 giving +1.5inch diameter, but with a heavy tire and potential rubbing issues. So I split the difference to the Kumho 235 giving a +1inch diameter, lighter weight, and better overall road manners. I did sacrifice off-road looks not going with the BFG, but I think I made the right call for a DD build. No noticeable handling issues, no noticeable increase in noise, and no noticeable decrease in MPG.

    I opted to the do the lift immediately to minimize complications due to rusting components. I can understand the concern for the warranty. I got pressured into buying a mild extended warranty and it's definitely in the back of my mind that Jeep with screw me on a warranty issue. Honestly I'd think that whether I had the lift or not.

    If you're concerned, maybe just do the Wheel Spacers. It will give you an immediate upgrade in appearance. I did 1.25inch. It was more expensive that the 1.0inch.

    I'm 100% satisfied with the lift and tire upgrade.
     
  11. Manuelw31

    Manuelw31 New Member

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    The dealership where I am said if I wanted to do a lift and spacers it wouldn’t do anything to the warranty because it’s not a crazy mod. They said 1.5” lift is nothing but anything over 3 would be a no no
     
  12. Kevin Gaare

    Kevin Gaare Active Member

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    @willydigger Thanks again man for the awesome feedback and advice.

    My concerns with alignment are also tire wear, I drive about 60-70 miles per day. I think I'm gunna go with the same lift you have, as soon as I get the funds. Would you recommend putting the camber bolts on and adjusting before or after getting the alignment, or does it matter? I'll also go with 235/65/17 tires, not getting the KO2's because they are so heavy and I don't do enough off-roading to justify them.
     
  13. willydigger

    willydigger New Member

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    Do the alignment first so you have a baseline of what you need. You could also buy and install the camber bolts based on my Negative camber, and then the shop can tweak the bolts as needed to line up the alignment.
     
  14. willydigger

    willydigger New Member

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  15. dk67

    dk67 New Member

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    you think it was worth the trouble to install this??
     
  16. willydigger

    willydigger New Member

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    Great question. I gained 2inches of lift overall including the higher tires. I spent around $1500 (lift, tires, alignment). Took a weekend to install myself. Same ride quality, loss of 2 mpg. I don't know if it was worth it.

    I've been conflicted between off road capability and daily driving 80+ miles per day. Ultimately I was forced to compromise and I think in hindsight that was a mistake.

    Maybe if I went into it with different expectations on ease of lift install and could have managed with more aggressive tires, I would be completely satisfied.
     
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